"I'm already losing hope but here comes my last try: how about to open a restaurant?"
This was really my last try there because I noticed that probably it's not very optimistic (according to many or most of them). By the way right now a person
said something very interesting there!!!
I’ve lived in 6 countries across 3 continents, and out of all of them Cambodia’s expat community is the worst for crab mentality. Not just on this site but Facebook, TOS etc. Everyone seems to really hate the idea of anyone succeeding here.
said a person with nickname "nerdlinger".
I plan to answer this ("I also started to feel something like this. Not everyone but here are really expats who're not helpful and who just want to joke or insult you just because you're trying politely to find your happiness there too. If most of them are like that, no wonder why some of the Khmers are getting xenophobic and don't want more foreigners in Cambodia. So, I'll just finish to read the answers and I'll answer them each and everyone in my forum (
My answers and comments in the Omnilogy forum.). I'm not going to continue here because it's nothing but a problem for the admins and mods of this forum."
Well, let me start first with the posts and answers I already posted and received there:
I started with this: "Well, already twice I got mostly pessimistic and discouraging answers about becoming a teacher in Cambodia or starting to work there in some casino. Because I'm just an east-European philosopher who speaks several foreign languages and owns TEFL, Master's at philosophy and 3 sports diplomas, the last thing that I got in mind (after which I'll lose hope about Cambodia) is may I open a restaurant? The problems is that if I sell my apartment in China and some other stuff like a computer, all my money will be around $39 000, I suppose. Is that enough to rent a house there for a year and to start a restaurant (I mean in some provincial town like Kep or Koh-Kong; I'm not a fan of the big cities like capitals or travel resorts)."
1. Someone nicknamed " Rizla" answered that he/she sees me being fleeced.
Does it mean that Cambodians are so dangerous? Or it means that my background looks too naive? I don't know but this kind of answer is not helpful and it's not backed by proof. 2. The well-known violet (which I already gave answers and comments in this thread above) said that If I would be content to lose the money I spend to set up a restaurant, "go for it". She is not saying I will fail, but in any business a person is advised to have enough to cover costs for at least twelve months and to be prepared to fail. (
Which I know very well, because the economics is my hobby and one of the basic things to learn there is that every business is a risky activity.) She also added,
Do I know how to navigate business ownership as a foreigner in Cambodia on a weekly basis - how to develop and maintain relationships with the local officials, etc. in order to be largely left to do my thing.
3. "Alexandra" (administrator) comment that I must forget what I like, to stand a chance I need to be where people are. People in Koh Kong and Kep eat in places I probably can’t afford to rent. (
I said that I like those places because I meant that I am not focusing on the capital or the biggest cities, i. e. I hoped that to choose a smaller town means it will be cheaper to rent, but... maybe she is right that there is expensive too, because they're beach towns.)
Also she asked: What do I have to offer that will make people visit me frequently? Do I know how to cook and do I have prior experience running a restaurant. She said "When I go to a restaurant I only care about if the food and service is good. If the owner has 10 different sports and philosophy degrees that’s great but I don’t care." too.
This means that she didn't get that what I mean is that as an educated person, for sure, I'll have enough knowledge to do something so simple as a restaurant. She thinks that $39,000 would last me longer in those towns if I don't open a restaurant. She thinks that I've chosen the most competitive industry… and asked ironically "What next, a hotel?" (
When I just choose something ordinary like teaching or working in casino - no way. If a choose something like selling new food -- too competitive... Not helpful at all.)
So here I expressed my sincere disappointment:
I think I am starting to get it: if I'd like to work a normal job (a teacher or even an ordinary servant) there, you guys are thinking it's a bad choice. If I want to develop my own business (like a restaurant that is possible even for people without any education; the world is full of restaurant owners who even didn't graduated in their high school and if you compare their economics with my economics knowledge their is close to zero), then again it's not a good idea.
May I ask you: if Cambodia is such a terrible place to make business and/or even to work as an ordinary worker, how and why are you people still there?!
a) You're stuck there and can't leave it and to find your better place?
b) You're discouraging every expat who is coming there because you're afraid of some more competirion?
c) You're local xenophobic people who strongly believe that Khmers can go everywhere, but the foreigners have to stay away from Cambodia?
d) You're just having fun discouraging people like me, who're trying to find a better life in there?
4. After this Alexandra answered at once that those people have something that I don’t: the knowledge of how to run a restaurant. (
She still didn't get it that I'm educated enough to know how to run a simple thing like a restaurant.) "It’s a critical component, don’t you think?" (
Feels like she is perceiving me as a kid or just an ordinary person without any degree.) She thinks that the restaurant owners have spent a big chunk of their lives working in restaurants. (
Which is not true in many cases.) She understood that I'm an English teacher with a philosophy and sports degree. Then, I don't know why, she suggested that "If you are good at economics then that’s what you should work with." (
Probably she doesn't know that if the economics is just a hobby and you have no this kind of certificate/diploma, there is no company that will invite you to be an economist there.) And something partly true: "Having a PhD in physics doesn't make you a good swimmer."
How do you know? Exactly a swimmer who knows better physics has more chances to use the laws of physic to develop better swimming skills. And when it comes to swimming -- it's a perfect example of something simple -- most of the people can learn how to swim the same as most of the people can learn how to run a restaurant. And here comes more: "Yeah, that must be it." she said (i. e. she disagrees that they're blocking me and discouraging me from start my life in Cambodia). And a new irony: "We don’t want you to open a restaurant because your economics knowledge will help you sell beer for $0.50 and fried rice for $1 faster than anyone of us can count."
Which means that she even can't imagine how innovative I am. I just plan to open a restaurant with new and unique food. She imagines me really like an ordinary guy. Well, it's okay. Let it be.And the last one -- "It’s not that you can’t cook, or that you've never worked a day in a restaurant, or that nearly everybody with the same idea as you has failed."
Wow... she is even sure that I didn't work in a restaurant. Like knows my past. I was a waiter-translator in Sanya, in an international restaurant. But even without this experience, I can make simple things like dealing with a restaurant.
I also didn't get it -- why she thinks that I have to be an owner + a cook in the restaurant?! Every owner is the chef of his/her restaurant? Strange logic. And this was my answer to them:
Alexandra, let me answer you friendly, because I do respect your time and I hope you're not joking around.
1) As a philosopher who wrote several books and who is reading non-stop economics, psychology and so on, I really do much more about the restaurants than people around me who even don't keep clean in their restaurants, who are even not trying to make ads and who even don't give any discounts... (the list is long). Believe me, in China there are so many low quality restaurants that it is just a proof that a bit more educated person could make it better.
2) I have a partner who is a good cook. Also, I'm going to hire at least 1 manager with experience in the restaurant. So, it's not like one man show, where I'll be the cook, the manager and the waiter.
3) Yes, there are some people who worked long time in restaurants, but also there are people who just set up one without previous experience. And many times it's okay, because they do hire other people who already did the job. So, it's not a necessary condition the owner to be an ex-cook or an ex-waiter in order to own a successful restaurant. Especially if it's something like new fast food thing.
4) I really think that a restaurant (fast food type like sushi, pizza, hot-dog, manty, baozi and so on) is one of the simplest businesses especially if you have the stuff and you're not trying to cook by yourself. Well, if it's so expensive to hire a waiter, I can be the waiter, but surely I'll have a pro cook, so where is the problem?
5) "What do you have to offer that will make people visit you frequently?" -- It's easy. Just something that there is still lacking. For example, long time ago a Chinese opened the first flower shop in Cambodia (at least this is what we know here) and it was a hit. So, imagine that there is still no sushi restaurant in some Cambodian town. The travelers usually like sushi... and you're the first one.
OK. I hope I showed enough of my points and with all due respect. Sorry, if I sound nervous or something but recently the life of the foreigners in China isn't easy -- even after nearly 20 years here I can't get Chinese citizenship and even a Green card! Also, nearly impossible to find a legal job anymore! And as far as so many (not that educated and knowledgeable expats) DO live in Cambodia, I believe that I can do it too, at least as good as they do.
5. The person with the nickname spitthedog said that his wife has mentioned about opening a takeaway in Oi'land. (
I don't know what's that place or it's just a nickname for a real place.) and explained that this is even after the Gypsies sometimes came to the restaurant where she worked and complained about pubes in the takeaways, so they didn't have to pay. (
This is also interesting because I don't know if there are real Gypsies in Cambodia or he uses this as a word to call some another minority or group of people.)
He said "They can't be my hairs, as mine aren't ginger. Or they'd just walk out without paying."
Which is terrible. I wonder where is the police in these cases or if the police is not there, at least the bodyguards of the restaurant, the owner at least, to stop it. It's illegal (a theft) to eat and not to pay. Well, that's why the rule should be "Pay first!" I think that he's right that most restaurants only do a good trade at the weekends. I think this is like this almost everywhere.
He said that he can't help but think they'd be better off using the money to get a mortgage, whilst renting out the house. That would be very low risk, compared to a restaurant, he thinks.
Well, if that region is really so criminal, maybe he's right. Starting to answer them one by one now, here. (I hope I can finish my answers these days!)
6. ផោមក្លិនស្អុយ comment with these:
"It’s not a bad idea, it’s just not a particularly good or original idea."
At least the food will be original. And if the idea is really not bad, then why not to try?"You might be successful for a while, but when locals see you being successful your business will be copied."
The same thing told me a Chinese about China. Okay, let them copy, but once you're already successful, a little loyal competition is not a problem. In some cases it's even useful."I’m sure you know the informal rules of business ‘be first’ - nope you aren't that,"
Why?! I can be exactly that. For example there are 1000 food ideas that are still not realized in Cambodia. At least 1 of these 1000 can my "being first"." ‘be smarter’ - well you think you are that, but wait until you arrive and you’ll see smart or ‘cheat’ there will be locals able to do things in business that you cannot hence lowering their overheads significantly."
Okay, let's say that some of the local people are with more advantages. It's a positive idea: "You really should be looking at your current USP, what do you have that others don’t?
Perhaps your connections in China?
There are people here running businesses which help consumers order stuff from China, they organise payment and delivery. These are decent little businesses for now but some are informal and the other ones seem a little chaotic. Perhaps that could be an option."
but the problem is that this is something that I already tried and the Chinese answer was that if we haven't a company, we can't do it. And to register this type of company is very expensive. And also, this is something that really needs some experience because it's not that easy as the restaurants."But you have this whole thing arse-about-face.
Just come here and spend 6 months, get a job teaching in person or online to fund yourself then research yourself." --
Well, not at all. I also think that I have to spend some months or even a year first. That's why I am checking first online. That's why I at first started to ask about jobs not about business, but the answers are not very encouraging."There will be opportunities, but whilst you may be academic you aren't being particularly creative. Teaching, casinos or restaurants… you need to come, look, think, and move your thoughts outside the obvious."
I can't be more creative than this, because there are some jobs and businesses that I can't do. For example farming or electronics. I'm just creative around my field of abilities. 7. A person nicknamed "Phuket2006" said that he/she sees restaurants going for under $8,000 in Kampot, Kep under $6,000, rents under $500/month, but the problem is they are usually being resold 6 months down the line.
Which sounds bad. Well, it doesn't mean that I'll also have to do that but if it's a usual thing... depressing indeed. Also, this person added that in Kampot it seems there are more restaurants (counting those in western run gh's) than could possible be needed.
It shows that some people are making business without good economics research and/or knowledge.For me it was a good to see that the person shows what maybe a good idea: "I'd love to see a well run western restaurant (other than Italian or seafood) in Kep." But he or she said that there are not enough westerns living there or western tourists that you would make a profit. He added that very few ones there, he/she doubts, work under the principal that a successful restaurant food costs are under 35%, he'd/she'd say they are closer to 60%!
At the end -- "your education, degrees and speaking multiple languages means jack shit" + "have you ever run a successful restaurant is all that matters".
He/she can't realize the thing that if a person is really well educated with different degrees and knows many languages (which means many cultures and many sources of info as well) he can make a successful restaurant much better than those who're lacking of knowledge and even can't do basic things like -- keep clean your restaurant, advertise your restaurant, etc.8. A person nicknamed "Tootsfriend" posted a very nice, useful comment, which I do appreciate a lot:
May I suggest you start a ''spaghetti '' restaurant or even a sidewalk stall / takeaway selling it. Because its very filling
just like rice Cambodians do like spaghetti especially kids. It's easy and quick to cook and no special kitchen equipment is needed. The kids in my family make a very good spaghetti with a hot chilli sauce, sometimes with a chicken meat other times using pork.. For the first few months you need to be able to hand out free samples to teenage kids , probably outside a school area, to the ones that set the trend and tell everyone on Facebook, they were given some spaghetti and it was so yummy. Consider this as advertising money spent so don't expect any monetary returns.
I have already claimed and registered the trade name GeorgeR Spaghetti, in Cambodia but when you have a successful, profitable spaghetti shop in every town I will sell you the trade name.
This is something really cool to know.9. Someone nicknamed "Stokely" posted something like an anecdote, I don't know -- "What's the difference between a philosopher and a cook in Cambodia?
About US$ 12k a year."
What I can say is that many philosophers around the world can't find philosophy related job and they really have to search for something else, including cook, language teacher, journalist, etc.10. Another one, with a nick "Dylan Quint" added that restaurants struggle even in the best of times. + "That said, when there's a threat of a credit freeze, you can always freeze the creditor instead."
What I know is to avoid credits. And yes, I know that especially now, with this terrible COVIDisation the restaurant business isn't very low risky. 11. Someone nicknamed "fapsara" posted that if the restaurant in Kep fails "you could make a living teaching semi-literate barangs how to spell and use punctuation."
I do agree that many foreigners really can't spell well and can't use the basic punctuation. Well, my English punctuation isn't very good too. But, at least, I do spell mostly correctly. The problem is that most of the people do not want to learn and to study. The knowledge isn't their value. To be continued...
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Obviously it's some kind of popular, circulating joke because right now in workjoke.com I found a similar one -- "What's the difference between a philosopher and an engineer? About 50,000 a year."
Philosophical or not, the context is clear -- regardless of what I want to do in Cambodia -- teaching in some English school, working in some casino or opening own business (restaurant) -- many (most?) of them will say that it's not possible for me, it's not a good idea, better not to go there and so on. And I continue to wonder -- why then they are there?! Are all of them that much better than me that they can deal with the Cambodian reality successfully and I can't? I doubt.
(Source: https://fourweekmba.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/straw-man-fallacy.png.)
. Years ago males with this kind of look will be perceived like feminine, childish and sometimes -- homosexual. There are even nowadays some elder people in Asia who think that this type of males are looking like females. For me, sometimes, is also not easy to say (if I don't know the certain J-pop, K-pop or Q-pop male star and I see this star's photograph for the first time) if it's a male or a female. Many of them just haven't enough male secondary sexual characteristics (no offense because I'm a person who likes the Asian cultures and whose forefathers are from Asia). And what's going on nowadays? There are millions of girls and young women who are dreaming for a man like this. If you're lucky enough to look like some of these stars, it's a granted deincelisation for you! (There is also a new type of -maxx, called "K-popmaxx" which means an incel person, usually Asian, to make efforts to look like a K-pop star. It's a kind of looksmaxxing.)